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I am a Roman Catholic convert from Protestantism. My wonderful wife Tenille and I live in Louisville, Ky., with our daughter Esther, and two sons, William and Ezra. We attend Mass at the beautiful St. Martin of Tours Catholic Church on Broadway Street.

Wednesday, February 2, 2011

Farewell, Beloved Knight

The great English journalist Mr. Gilbert Kieth Chesterton had (and still has) a remarkable effect on people. He is impossible to ignore. Love him or hate him, he was larger than life-- eccentric, brilliant, and absolutely unforgettable. His contemporaries could never quite pass him by unnoticed, could never completely leave him alone, and could never simply pretend that he did not exist, no matter how much many of them might have wished that he did not.

There was nothing lukewarm about Chesterton, nor was there anything lukewarm about the responses that he elicited from his readers. He was praised, admired, or at least respected in his own times by men as diverse as Hilaire Belloc and George Bernard Shaw. He was equally insulted and despised by countless others of his own generation. If the number of books, websites, comments and quotes I frequently encounter are any indication, I would say that he is at least as popular now as he was in his own lifetime, and just as unforgettable. My own impressions of GKC have gone through several major changes since I first met him years ago in Orthodoxy and The Everlasting Man, but after long acquaintance I would like to offer a few thoughts and a few words in praise of that giant Christian.

There are many reasons why Mr. Chesterton was either greatly admired or else despised and detested. One reason was his style of paradoxical writing. It is, to put it simply, infuriating. Infuriatingly good or infuriatingly bad, depending on your perspective. Chesterton viewed paradox as "truth standing on its head" trying to get attention, and attention is exactly what he got. He put paradox to great use in nearly all of his writings, expressing truth in pithy, witty, and unforgettable lines. Opinions concerning his writing style were almost always polarized. Many men of his own time found his writing brilliant, and  Belloc even composed a poem about G. K. Chesterton in which he referred to him as "the only man I regularly read". Others found his style simply maddening and provoking, and even some contemporary Catholics found it cheap. Again, you may either love it or hate it, but you cannot ignore it.

My own first encounter with Chesterton occurred many years ago. In my mid-teens my family discovered C. S. Lewis. We loved him. My first experience with Lewis, around the age of fourteen or fifteen, was The Abolition of Man, a oft-forgotten work that I think is really one of his best. As we were reading and admiring Lewis, my father came across a comment that Lewis had been greatly influenced by the writings of another Englishman, named G. K. Chesterton. The obvious thing to do after enjoying Lewis then was to read some Chesterton. So my Dad discovered Orthodoxy and The Everlasting Man, and my life was never quite the same. He used to read us passages from Chesterton that he thought were remarkably good, though he would occasionally comment that he could not understand how a man as brilliant as G. K. Chesterton could have ever converted and become Catholic. I suppose that it was astonishing that intellect and true Christianity could ever look towards Rome. Ah, strange and beautiful paradox, that at last I understand!

I will never forget the impression that Chesterton first left in my mind. He was the only other really logical, intellectual Christian besides Lewis that I had read at that time, but the difference between him and Lewis was remarkable. Where Lewis was cautious, Chesterton threw caution to the winds. Where Lewis wrote beautifully, Chesterton wrote with such exquisite and gloriously lyrical passion that I wanted to rejoice, sing, and weep; usually all at the same time. And where Lewis was profound, scholarly and careful, Chesterton was scintillating, brilliantly incisive (though seemingly careless), effortlessly slicing through layers of error and misconception, and exposing the simple and beautiful Truth in a way that made one want to laugh for sheer delight. I still remember the joy with which I encountered lines such as this one, from Orthodoxy:

"To have fallen into any of those open traps of error and exaggeration which fashion after fashion and sect after sect set along the historic path of Christendom--that would indeed have been simple. It is always simple to fall; there are an infinity of angles at which one falls, only one at which one stands.To have fallen into any one of the fads from Gnosticism to Christian Science would indeed have been obvious and tame. But to have avoided them all has been one whirling adventure; and in my vision the heavenly chariot flies thundering through the ages, the dull heresies sprawling and prostrate, the wild truth reeling but erect."

Or this one from The Everlasting Man:

"We are Christians and Catholics not because we worship a key, but because we have passed a door; and felt the wind that is the trumpet of liberty blow over the land of the living."

Or one of my first encounters with his poetry:

                                                                 The Donkey

                                                 When fishes flew and forest walked
                                                 And figs grew upon thorn,
                                                 Some moment when the moon was blood
                                                 Then surely I was born.

                                                With monstrous head and sickening cry
                                                And ears like errant wings,
                                                The devil's walking parody
                                                Of all four-footed things,
                                           
                                                The tattered outlaw of the earth
                                                Of ancient, crooked will
                                                Starve, scourge, deride me: I am dumb
                                                I keep my secret still.

                                                Fools! For I also had my hour,
                                               One far fierce hour and sweet
                                               There was a shout about my ears
                                               And palms before my feet."

I was captivated, and I wanted more. Besides the beauty of Chesterton's writing, and his obvious wit and genius, I was struck by something else. I was struck by fact that when Chesterton wrote on something he was almost always absolutely certain that he was right. While this may appear to some to be arrogance, and may in fact be another reason why many have so heartily disliked him, his certainty was actually far from arrogant. It was coupled with a great humility and a healthy dose of humor which made it all the more charming and refreshing. This point is important, because Chesterton's assurance represented something to me that I had never really encountered before. As a sort of quasi-fundamentalist, my experiences with certainty were unlike what I saw in books like Orthodoxy. In a background like mine one experiences a curious mix of a multiplicity of opinions, combined with a strong personal certainty that often smacks of subjectivity. In the "home church" environment of my youth I encountered disagreements and theological speculations, and yet also the dogmatic though often subjective certainty of my father and others. But I had never really encountered anything like the certainty of Gilbert Kieth Chesterton before.

There was nothing abrasive about it. It did not hint of subjectivity, arrogance, bigotry, or dominance. It smacked of freedom. It was humble because Chesterton was not leaning upon his own understanding, but rather upon the authority of the Church. It was freeing because that authority was divinely instituted, because it was really true, and the truth sets us free. It was objective because it did not deal in how one felt, or how one thought the Scriptures should be interpreted. In a world  blighted by the dreadful doctrine of relativism Chesterton did not snivel and second-guess; he did not say things like "Well, that's what I think, but it's just my opinion, of course", or "I believe so, but I could be wrong". Chesterton wasn't dealing in speculations, relativism, or subjectivity. No, he truly had passed a door and felt the wind of liberty blow over the land of the living. Indeed, he even seemed (for all his monstrous girth) to be frolicking in the fields of that land, rejoicing in certainty, experiencing reality, and free from diverse interpretations. To find a man who is not uncertain, who through obedience to an authority outside himself is humble, yet who stands with his feet on a Rock and knows what he believes; a man, who, free from confusion can say "This is true" without arrogance; to find such a man in our times is a rare and beautiful thing.

Chesterton himself had some words to say on this very topic: "Modesty has moved from the organ of ambition. Modesty has settled upon the organ of conviction, where it was never meant to be. A man was meant to be doubtful about himself, but undoubting about the truth; this has been exactly reversed....At any street corner we may meet a man who utters the frantic and blasphemous statement that he may be wrong. Every day one comes across somebody who says that of course his view may not be the right one. Of course his view must be the right one, or it is not his view. We are on the road to producing a race of men too mentally modest to believe in the multiplication table....Scoffers of old time were to proud to be convinced; but these are too humble to be convinced. The meek do inherit the earth, but these are too meek to even claim their inheritance." (G. K. Chesterton Orthodoxy) No wonder that I thrilled when I first read Chesterton! Somewhere in my heart and subconscious I wanted what he had.

Over time I continued reading, discovering Father Brown, the bizarre yet beautiful novel The Man Who was Thursday, and finally the seminal Conversion and the Catholic Church. But, eventually, I stopped reading Chesterton, and left him alone for a very long time.

Times and people change; we learn and grow and become different for better or for worse. When, at last, my own twisted path began to turn once more towards Home, I still did not read Chesterton. I encountered new authors, different books, and my tastes had changed. I did read his biography of St. Francis of Assisi, and loved it, but when I tried the first few pages of The Dumb Ox (on St. Aquinas), I did not find it as interesting, and left it untouched. Only last last year did I finally read that brilliant and monumental work, and presently consider myself much indebted to it.

I still held a certain  respect for GKC, but I think that I, too, had tired of his style. I unconsciously fell into the error of thinking the that he was sometimes shallow in his paradox, occasionally extravagant and careless in his writing. Fondness turned to condescension, the mental "pat on the head", and this is a great mistake with G. K. Chesterton.

I became reacquainted with Chesterton eventually, not that long ago, and not only did I find my appreciation for him had returned, but was even greater than before. But this time around I have noticed something that I had never realized before, and I think it may help to explain some things about Chesterton. It may help to explain how he could be so incredibly right about nearly everything, but still make mistakes; how he could be so scholarly and yet so careless; so studied and yet so hasty. Of course, the simple answer is that he was human, and therefore fallible. But I think that there is something more to the story, and it is this that I particularly wish to share with you today.

I am no Chesterton scholar; I have not read all his works, nor examined biographies of him, nor considered the opinions of those whose business it is the analyze the thoughts and feelings of notable historic characters after they have died. But I believe that in lives of truly remarkable men and women we may come to see themes or patterns, certain driving passions and defining characteristics. In the case of Chesterton, I suppose that the most obvious thing is that he was Catholic. But there are two other characteristics that would I like to share here, which have been growing in my mind, and which have helped me to see Chesterton in clearer light than before.

The first is that Chesterton was helplessly enamored with the fact of existence. He was ceaselessly amazed that this universe is real, constantly overwhelmed by blades of grass or stars in the sky, and especially awestruck with fact that he himself had been created and was alive. The most remarkable things in life (and especially life itself) are often the things that we take for granted, and few of us have been given the gift of being truly aware of the astonishing miracle that any of this, or any of us, should ever exist at all. Chesterton was one of the few who was truly saturated with this gift, amazed with the incredible fact that he was, and he never got over it. In response to people who speak of "might-have-been's", Chesterton wrote that the really remarkable thing is that each man "is a great might-not-have-been". The fact that Chesterton, during a period of severe darkness, was driven to the point of contemplating suicide, makes his enduring celebration of life all the more rich and poignant.

 But there is something more to the man, a characteristic of which I have become aware as I have become reacquainted with him. Chesterton's writings are full of fairy tales and fireworks, knights and heraldry, chivalry and romance. There is an almost childlike quality in his appreciation of these things, and there is certainly nothing wrong with being childlike. But let us never mistake child-likeness with childishness. Chesterton was neither childish nor simple. But to be like a child is a very good thing, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Chesterton was a medievalist, in the best sense of the term, and I think that herein may be a key to understanding much that seems confusing or inconsistent with him.

Much as we may consider St. Francis of Assisi as the last and greatest of the troubadours (or perhaps more accurately, as he himself might have said, one of the jongleur de Dieu), so I think that Chesterton was one of the greatest and last of the Christian knights of our times. Yes, a knight with a pen instead of a sword, but a knight nonetheless. Flying the banner of God, and wearing the insignia of his beloved Lady the Church over his heart, Chesterton plunged into all the great battles of his day with heedless virtue and luminous veracity. A knight is very certain, because he fights for king or queen and country. His mind is unconfused, he sees what needs to be done very clearly, and he does it. His is chivalrous and romantic, he brooks no insult to his lady, nor any danger to his native land. A knight is very real, for he deals daily with life and death, and the simple beauties and realities of life are all the more precious to him after the battle is over. But for all this he is not a scholar, though they both fight for the same things. He is a man of action and great passion, not a slow and careful schoolman. And so a great knight, though he be seen as noble after victory, or praised in songs and with monuments, may also have his more quixotic moments. In all his vigorous action he may occasionally mistake a windmill for a giant, or find that the noble steed on which he thinks he rides is really just a donkey. He may even seem to be the donkey at times himself and appear to the world to be a fool. But no matter, the message of the Cross was considered foolishness to the Greeks, and our Divine Savior Himself entered Jerusalem riding on a donkey. And I am very sure of this: that neither you nor I, or any other ass who has ever lived, when bearing our Lord, is in any way less noble than the greatest stallion running lonely in the fields.

And so, I have more appreciation for Chesterton now. He makes more sense to me. He was a large man, physically and intellectually, and he was a man with a giant heart. No cautious statesman he, no meditative monk or solitary hermit, but he was a titan of a man, born with a childlike love of life into a gray and dying society that was attacking everything he loved, everything he deemed worth living for. He fought like the knights of old for all that was good and beautiful with no thought for himself or any careful consideration that he might seem to be outnumbered. He fought, not with despair, but as a man in love, who would have done battle with a hundred men with only his naked hands, just to spare some flower in the grass. He was indeed one of the last great knights, and we may not soon see his like again.

It is not for me to try here to compare the various levels of the virtues of the saints, nor even to say if Chesterton was a saint, in the sense that the Church uses that word. He has never been canonized, but he has been declared as a Defender of the Faith, and there is something remarkably fitting in that knight-like title. In heaven I do not know how bright his aureole will shine compared to those around him. But each person has something special about him or her, something unique and precious, however great or small person may be. And somehow, I like to imagine, that when we are all at last called home to the great Wedding Feast of the Lamb, when we sit around the Banquet Table of the Lord, that Chesterton will drink deeply of the wine of the joy of God as the bowl is passed around, and will laugh louder and sing with more abandon, than most of those that we have known on earth.

So rest now from your labors, good and honest subject of the King, for you fought well for the cause of God. And may you, O faithful departed soul, dwell forever in light perpetual. Farewell, beloved knight. Requiescat in pace, Mr. Chesterton.

10 comments:

Saf said...

A beautiful sentiment, sir, and for a worthy writer.

It seems that I passed over a chance to read Chesterton at roughly the same age at which you discovered him, based on the selfsame association with Lewis that you've cited. While my personal distaste for Lewis has persisted, I was mercifully given the later opportunity to discover that my pregustant broad-brushing of Chesterton was just that. Years afterward, I came across some of ser knight's extraordinarily witty correspondence with Clarence Darrow and George Bernard Shaw, and while appreciating it immensely, I failed to recognize the name that I'd neglected from my youth. Another few years, and a Father Brown story fell into my hands -- it was then, finally, that I pieced the fragments together (and subsequently quite abandoned my temporary obsession with quaint murder mysteries in order to devour Orthodoxy and The Everlasting Man).

I should probably say that I am quite merrily agnostic. Whether that adds or subtracts merit from my enjoyment of ser knight's philosophies, I will not bother to decide (for I don't rightly care, to be honest -- t'would be a matter of opinion at best, and one smacking of elitism at worst). I am not, I think, the type of saggy-kneed, modernist agnostic that frustrated Chesterton so, nor am I the smugly philistine type that he would likely have dismissed as silly (or too easy) without addressing.

I am not all agog with Mr. Chesterton, however, and I don't believe in glazing over the unpalatable bits for the sake of glorifying the greater whole. For the most part, I agree that the certainty you so adequately described was effulgent (and quite beautiful), but there were times while reading Orthodoxy that I found it so selectively-applied as to seem ad hoc, or indeed at other times quite zealous (in the book-burning, flame-tongued, left-hand-of-God sense of the word). One example that springs readily to mind is his exegesis on science and reason, which seems to state that they rely on faith no less than spiritual belief does. If I'm not mangling the quote too badly, "Reason itself is an act of faith... it is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relationship with reality at all." This assertion in itself is hardly off-putting, as I fully agree with it myself, and have always -- but it is implicit in the very same breath that reason is inferior to the sort of aloof mysticism that Chesterton verges on promulgating. He seems to forget that the same harsh, introspective light that he uses to disintegrate faith in reason is equally as damaging to faith in doctrine (a place where he conveniently -- or perhaps wisely -- refrains from shining it). I can't help but feel that his argent certainty is actually a kind of subconscious legerdemain in those instances.

Although exaggerated, in my mind this is akin to arguing that "Logic is fallible because it is founded in assumptions. As to my personal beliefs... Oh, hey! Look at how pretty everything is! How could you not agree?" While dazzling, it tends to come across as a bit insulting at times (and, incidentally, Clarence Darrow used this tactic to great effect in some of his more famous and memorable cases).

Anyway, I've gone on quite a bit longer than I intended to (believe it or not, I only intended to write that first sentence). I stumbled upon your blog by chance, but enjoyed the read thoroughly. Well done!

~Saf

Anonymous said...

Isaac,

Great treatment of Chesterton, probably the best I have read (and I'm not just saying that).

I went through a Chesterton phase myself, coinciding with my brief affair with Holy Mother Church. How could a man so certain, so witty and so likeable be wrong? I asked myself.

Passionate knights have their place, but cold reason and yes, Modesty ("I could be wrong about this") also have their place. In the end, Martin Luther's modesty about the decrees of the Church (it is possible for a Council to err) was too strong to ignore.

In one of his books, Chesterton wrote that he didn't quite understand the Church's promotion of chastity. Being a man of passion and abandon, he couldn't understand it. It reveals a small contradiction between Chesterton the man and the Church he so loved that is telling, I think. It's worth keeping in mind, both to understand Chesterton and to understand the Church.

--Ben Carmack

Isaac Fox said...

Hi Saf, welcome to the blog!
Glad you stumbled across it by accident. Thanks for your well-written thoughts. I apologize that it has take me so long to respond to your comments, haven't had much computer time this week.

If I may offer just a few thoughts. I may have to break this up into several comments, apparently the comment settings only allow a certain number of characters, and I have yet to figure out how to change that. Just one of the little trials of being computer illiterate! So glance down to the other comments for the rest.

I can completely understand how you may not be "all agog" with G. K. Chesterton. I am sure that those of us who agree more with him, especially Catholics, are somewhat more agog. That is only natural. Yet I must still completely agree with you that it is not wise to "gloss over" the faults, failings, and errors of our heros.

Nonetheless, it is important to try to understand the person. The mere facts of a case, taken out of context or with no regard to a person's character, etc., can actually be somewhat deceptive. Consider the example of Faith. The fact that a person believes in God does not explain everything to us about how that person's Faith will affect his/her actions. That person may believe out of fear, or because Faith was simply handed down from their parent's, even perhaps because of a long intellectual process. It may even be the result of despair, or it might be love. The fact of Faith alone may not tell us everything about how that person's Faith will make them behave. But dig a little deeper, and for good or bad, their actions in accordance with their Faith may at least make sense.

In the case of Mr. Chesterton, I hope that I neither gloss over, nor try to pick his errors apart. Neither approach is really honest nor helpful. It was rather the intention of the post, though no doubt rather poorly done, to examine what seems to me to be a character trait in the man, that may at least make sense of certain apparent inconsistencies. Chesterton was definitely not infallible, but that doesn't keep him from having been remarkable, and remarkably good.

Isaac Fox said...

Saf,
Part two here. The really important part of your comment that I wanted to address here concerns Faith and reason, and Chesterton's handling of them. I may be relying on a little guesswork here, as memory is not aiding me in regards to the quote that you cited, but I think that this is still fairly accurate.

First of all note that GKC seems to be refering more to science than reason. His concern in the quote is the relationship between my thoughts (reason) and the reality of the material world. In other words, 2+2=4 is undeniably logical and true, but whether my eyes that see four trees are completely reliable is far less certain. The number two is as reasonable and true for the sane person as the lunatic, but goodness knows if the two people the lunatic sees are truly there. This distinction is crucial.

Secondly, I cannot imagine that someone who loved and defended reason as much as Chesterton, was in any way trying to destroy it. Rather, I suspect that he was responding to those who would seek to destroy Faith by reason, by demonstrating that this was impossible, saying in effect "Look, even reason requires faith, so how can you try to use reason to destroy faith?" This in no way attempts to destroy reason or its rightful place, it simply tells us that faith is necessary.

Thirdly, I do not feel that Chesterton was engaging in even subconscious slight-of-hand, or being inconsistent. There is an answer to this in his biography of St. Thomas Aquinas, a book that is definitely worth reading. I will continue below.

Isaac Fox said...

In my imagination, I feel that you are viewing Chesterton's thought horizontally instead of vertically. In other words, I feel that you see Chesterton approaching a horizontal list or field of facts and randomly choosing which to defend or not defend. That would, of course, be inconsistent. But consider, for a moment, Chesterton's thought as a whole, vertically, and it will look like a ladder or house (to use the analogy in the St. Thomas biography). If the first rung is established then we may build more rungs more confidently.

Of course reason requires Faith. This neither makes reason necessarily unreliable, nor Faith unreasonable. There is always the hypothetical possibility that I may be insane, that the world does not exist, that this chair is just an illusion. But if I take a leap of faith and accept that I am sane, and accept the evidence of my senses, then once that fact is established, there is no inconsistency with saying "This chair is real." There is not the same need to go back over the same ground and reprove my sanity every time I encounter a chair. If all the chairs in the world were simply a list of unrelated articles, then I would be wise to carefully prove each one of them. But if reality is a ladder, and I have established the first rung of sanity, then no one will criticize me for accepting the reasonableness of this chair. I am not saying that we accept the doctrines of the Church without examination, merely that if I have accepted reason, then I will find those docrines very reasonable indeed.

I suppose you could level the same argument at faith and doctrine as well as reason if you wanted, but only at the expense of destroying everything. In the end, I think the only argument against the reasonableness of faith, is the possibility that I may be insane. But even arguments against reason require reason, and so are internally inconsistent. But accept reason and sanity, and then the building begins.

Chesterton was not inconsistent, nor an illusionist. He was convinced of the importance of reason, he accepted sanity and reason, and he found the Church to be very reasonable, and world very unreasonabl.

I hope that I have understood your comments, and this hastily written response makes sense. Again, thanks for commenting!

Saf said...

Isaac,

You do make a very good point, and one that requires a bit of introspection on my part. I do wonder how much of the "bigger picture" I might've missed by scrutinizing Chesterton's writing for a presumed agenda. By habit, I tend to first look for people's motivations. Perhaps a characteristic of paranoia, or just a natural curiosity about the bridge between psyche and expression (if I am paranoid, then I'm at least an accomplished one -- I'm bound to consider everything from Prime Directive to Gestalt psychology in looking for motives). This disposition has been useful to me, but on reflection, may be a bit overwrought in this case. After all, I certainly never felt that Chesterton was attempting to sell me anything, and remnants of my first impression (that Chesterton wrote to justify his beliefs, rather than to exult in them) may be hobbling my ability to understand. I'll have to spend some time reflecting on my perception of his work.

In regards to the faith of reason, I do fully understand the concept (indeed, I exasperatingly spent the better part of two years attempting to explain the idea to an atheist pen-pal of mine who, despite being devastatingly more intellectual than I, could not cope with uncertainty -- he continues to assert that 2+2=4 in an absolute sense, beyond and without humanity). My issue with Chesterton's application of the principle is that it is selective. Reason and faith are both rendered by faulty human faculties, as he points out. To conceptualize either of them beyond humanity is intrinsically impossible (for a human, anyway). I fully agree that one cannot use science to assail faith, and vice versa. However, by acknowledging that reason is founded upon the unreliable (even if, as you point out, we must accept our perception of reality in order to make any progress whatsoever), one must also acknowledge that religious faith relies on the same unreliable perception -- that is to say, if one is just one big theory, so is the other. This is what strikes me as being inherently inconsistent for a man as unshakably certain in his beliefs as Chesterton. For, yes, the beginnings of any belief must be assumed, but to then assert that a belief is absolutely true, one must ignore or forget that the cornerstone of the house, so to speak, may not exist outside our own perception.

Don't get me wrong, I know exactly how useless this line of reasoning is, and have no desire to explore it (indeed, as you say -- attacks against reason rely on reason, and to never cease questioning the chair I'm sitting in is, while hypothetically reasonable, a spiral that very quickly terminates in nihilism... not to mention asinine for any sane person). I suppose my argument boils down to this: If faith in reason and faith in doctrine are fallible on the same principle -- that is, equally fallible, then how can Chesterton assert that his faith in doctrine is more valid than, say, Confucius' faith that existence was confined to the earthly things that he could perceive with his human senses? That being said, I have not read the Aquinas biography, nor the remaining bulk of Chesterton's work -- if indeed he answers these questions elsewhere, then it seems I'm wasting time asking them. ;)


As for glossing over details, I certainly didn't intend to implicate you in that; I only meant to provide some balance in my own impression of the writer. On the contrary, I took your blog entry for what it was, and despite your modesty, I must say that I think it was masterfully written.

Also, me stumbling across your blog wasn't by complete accident, I've discovered, but because of an apparent shared interest in bartending. This has been my profession for a little over six years now (since I was legally old enough to hold a shaker), and something I'm very (perhaps absurdly) passionate about. We should compare notes sometime!

~Saf

Saf said...

On a completely unrelated note, I just noticed in your profile blurb that you have a daughter named Esther. My given name is Safira Setareh (first and "middle" as approximated to Western culture), and in my understanding, "Esther" and "Setareh" are derived from the same Old Persian stāra (or otherwise from the Assyrian goddess Ištar, but seeing as how this was transliterated from a proto-Dravidian cuneiform language, I find the former more likely).

A bit too convoluted to call it a remarkable coincidence, but at least I can cheekily say "Nice name!"

~Saf

Isaac Fox said...

Ben,
Thanks very much for you kind comments. (And I'm not just saying that, either!)Any amateur, would-be writer appreciates every genuine compliment he can get!

I do have a couple of thoughts, though, where I must politely disagree.

Modesty, which you describe as "I could be wrong about this", is not what is evidenced in the Luther scenario. You take modesty about oneself and transfer it to modesty about the councils (which are outside oneself)at the same time. This does not work. Luther evidenced certainty (not "I may be wrong") against the councils, popes, and nearly a millennium and a half of Christian tradition. You cannot switch modesty horses midstream, and change "I may be wrong" to "I am not wrong, they are wrong". I know this is an oversimplification, but hopefully makes sense.

Concerning Chesterton the opposite is true. There was no contradiction between him and the Church on the subject of celibacy (not chastity). Chesterton recognizes the defect as in himself, not the Church. He does not oppose the Church on this subject, but admits that he hasn't quite "gotten it" yet, so to speak. Actual quote is: "But the fact that I have no appreciation of the celibates, I accept like the fact that I have no ear for music. The best human experience is against me as it is on the subject of Bach. Celibacy is one flower in my father's garden, of which I have not been told the sweet and terrible name. But I may be told it any day." (Orthodoxy)

You see, Chesterton's certainty was rooted in modesty about himself, and the acceptance of an outside authority, that of the Church. Where they contradict each other he bows, not revolts.

Of course, I do not agree that the councils can err, but that is the subject for another post or conversation, or twenty-five books! Perhaps, you have some thoughts or information concerning why you believe they can err. Some apparent contradiction, perhaps. I would be very interested in such a discussion.

Isaac Fox said...

Saf,
Very tough questions, these! I think that you are hitting at very roots of philosophy. I am not a philosopher, nor am I qualified or studied to give an answer. I do have some thoughts about knowledge and its certainty, but I hope to write a post about them soon. Probably post after next, so stay tuned, but I haven't had much time for writing lately.

However, I think that we are dealing with two separate topics here. The first concerns knowing: the ways in which we know (science, reason, faith) and the certainty with which we know (moral certainty, absolute certainty). This is another matter. But we are also dealing with Chesterton's handling of these problems, with his apparent selectivity, and possible inconsistency. On this second topic I would like to offer a couple of brief thoughts.

If you go back and read the passage from which quoted in full you will also find this quote: "In so far as religion is gone, reason is going. For they are both of the same primary and authoritative kind. They are both methods of proof which cannot themselves be proved. And in the act of destroying the idea of Divine authority we have largely destroyed the idea of that human authority by which we do a long division sum. With a long and sustained tug we have attempted to pull the mitre off pontifical man; and his head has come off with it." Here, you see, he indicates that both reason and religion are "methods of proof that cannot themselves be proved" (in that human way, of course). So, at least in this place, he is clearly not being selective; he applies the principle to both reason and religion.

You wrote: "Reason and faith are both rendered by faulty human faculties, as he points out." He actually doesn't point this out, anywhere that I have seen. If he ever wrote that faith was rendered by a faulty human faculty he would be at odds with the very Church that he defended, which insists that Faith is a Divine gift, freely given, and imparts a certainty higher than that of reason (even though it cannot be proved absolutely by reason). This is an important distinction.

Again, in the same vein, "...one must also acknowledge that religious faith relies on the same unreliable perception--that is to say, if one is just one big theory so is the other." "If faith in reason and faith in doctrine are fallible on the same principle--that is equally fallible...." These arguments do several things. First they make faith dependent upon reason. The Church, myself, and Chesterton would all disagree. In fact, the most that Chesterton said in the passage we have been considering is that reason is dependent upon faith, not the other way around. If anything then, faith is higher, greater, and more necessary, for it does not depend upon reason (though reason may lead us to its doorstep), but reason does depend upon it. Secondly, that faith in reason and in doctrine are equally fallible. This, however, is based upon an assumption (and perhaps a misunderstanding of faith). Again, the suggestion was only that reason might be occasionally fallible, not that faith was. In the spots where reason fails, faith steps in and leads us to the next level.

I am not completely certain what Chesterton was trying to say about reason in this passage, nor if I entirely agree with him. I think that there are some things that we can know absolutely by reason, our own existence, for example; but this will be more addressed in the upcoming post. I feel that he was dealing with an extreme scenario, especially in light of the preceding chapter (The Maniac), with the only other option being insanity. If it is inconsistent to believe something is absolutely true, while admitting that there is one argument against it, namely the possibility of insanity; then I cannot criticize too harshly. This is all for now, I'll write more later. Just some things to think about.
And, yes, I'm pretty passionate about bartending, too.

Isaac Fox said...

Saf,
If I may construct a syllogism:
Reason is uncertain.
Reason is faith-dependent.
Therefore, faith is uncertain.

The conclusion does not follow from the major and minor premises. Of course, I think that even the premises need a bit of modification, but that's another topic.

If the syllogism went this way:
Reason is uncertain.
Faith relies upon reason.
Therefore faith is uncertain.

There might be a problem. But not myself, Chesterton, nor the Church would were saying that. But perhaps we should define faith. I'm not just talking about belief, or trying to talk oneself into a feeling of certainty.